FrozenFire
UOPG Moderator 
Registered: 20/6/2002 Location: ClownTown, Europa Member Is Offline Mood: Bitter? Who, me
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| posted on 23/1/2003 at 18:51 |
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Perspectives
AoS is soon here and when it arrives, stat loss goes. That should make for
a more interesting life in Felucca. Too bad everyone will be busily
exploring Malas. With 3 facets using the Trammel ruleset I think the old
way to view PK:ing - wolves and lambs - is useless. Since the lambs can
choose between Trammel, Ilshenar or Malas, PK:ing in Felucca will be a dog
eat dog thing.
So those of you that long for the freedoms of old (and the abundance of
easy prey), forget it, AoS has nothing for you. PKing is going be largely
over bragging rights with few easy kills (with the possible exception at
the champion spawns). Loot will be scarcy unless the insurance is real
expensive. But most of you already realized this, and from what I can see,
a lot of pvp:ers are now eagerly anticipating the next PvP friendly game;
Shadowbane.
Since its due in a couple of months, I decided to to see what all the fuss
was about. I havent been able to talk to anyone actually playing, so I
played around with the information on the publishers website.
Anyways, I'd describe it as DAoC with housing. Im sure there are many many
differences between the two, so please dont bury me in mails about them.
What I mean is this:
They are both (mostly) 1st perspective 3D with OK to nice graphics. Im not
as impressed with 3D graphics as most I suppose. But then again 3D has a
bit changed since they released EQ.
They are both level based with race and class (I think) determined when you
create your char. Death is pretty mild and you auto res at your bind point
(with some XP loss I believe). No joy for PK:ers, items stay with the ghost
(either that or most of it, cant remember for sure).
They feature group to group combat, DAoC between realms (can individual
guild based within the same realm fight each other?) and all out
guild/clan/group warfare in Shadownbane.
The main difference that mattered to me, was that every guild can aspire to
found/take over a city in Shadowbane. Actually
building/supporting/defending your city seems to be the main goal. It sorta
seems to me like UO factions between player run cities, with the loosers
city/guildstone being destroyed.
Come to think of it, OSI is borrowing heavily from newer games and perhaps
especially so with Shadowbane. Special moves in combat are something that
weve seen in both DAoC and SB (I cant remember whether there were any in EQ
or AC, but you can bet your castles EQ2 and AC2 will have them). The whole
thing with resistances and the new magic items system look a lot like what
UO:s later cousins feature.
So, will SB crush UO when it comes to pvp? I cant help but think that AoS
just made UO more like SB and those that dont like AoS pvp, *might* be
disappointed with how pvp is handled in SB. What sets UO apart from SB are
basically two things (Im sure both dev teams would yell at me for this, but
hey. . .) One, UO still has the isometrical perspective, which I like a
lot. Two, there are no levels in UO, meaning that PvP becomes less about
how much XP you have been able to farm and more about what the players do.
Three, you can still play solo and have fun in UO. On the flip side, I
think SB community will be a lot stronger than in UO. With guilds being
such a central concept (there are even several kinds), they will be
necessary to provide mutual support and help.
Again, this is mostly guesswork based on a few hours of browsing some
website. I, for one, plan to try SB out for real, but Im not holding my
breath.
Oh, and PK:ing, as it was before stat loss was put in UO, is nowhere to be
found in SB either. So for those that hoped SB would be a PK:ers haven, no
joy.
Faster. Cheaper. Stronger.
www.uopowergamers.com
Achiever - 73% Killer - 73% Socializer - 33% Explorer - 20%
Who are you? Take the Bartle
test.
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Gyb
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| posted on 23/1/2003 at 19:51 |
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I went through a phase where I was excited about ShadowBane, but that was
over a year ago. This game has been delayed so much, I just couldn't keep
my interest level up. There are aspects of it I really like, especially the
way they approach the level system (it isn't just you pick a dwarf paladin
and that's what you are evermore, you get to pick different areas of focus
at certain times in your career, sort of like multiclassing.) But anyway,
it has been so long, I just don't know who still actually cares this game
is coming out besides a handful of hard core pvp guilds. And they could
maybe be what, 1000-5000 people at the absolute most? That's going to keep
a game afloat? Even assuming they capture good numbers at opening, I doubt
this will ever be more than a niche game. Still, their fiction is really
cool, I'll give them that.
Gyb - The Nobility - Great Lakes
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dissonant
Semi-Nuub
Registered: 5/1/2003 Member Is Offline
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| posted on 23/1/2003 at 23:08 |
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Hey we already know the care bear servers suck ass. Why doesn't everyone
head over to Siege? No trammel ruleset AT ALL. Care bearers are excited
about no statloss? We've had it on Siege forever. No recall either. Reds
can go in town and access banks, etc etc.
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Bokonon
Semi-Nuub
Registered: 13/12/2002 Member Is Offline Mood: Je suis l'espri
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| posted on 23/1/2003 at 23:48 |
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Two issues
One, Shadowbane is outdated since they continually had delays. Their
graphics are almost as poor as EQ's were when they first came out (okay not
that bad, but way way low on the scale) and everything they had as an
original idea has been stolen by other companies. SWG, DAoC both are going
to pretty much have everything that SB is going to have, and I trust
Verant, as much as I hate them, to produce something of quality.
UO does steal from other games, and other games steal from each other. EQ
stole the Anarchy Online item display menu, and stole UO's traders to a
degree. In an EQ2 interview one of the developers for EQ2 said that they
were releasing "never before seen housing in a Online Enviroment."
Obviously, this is all BS since housing has been in UO for 5 years when no
other game has been able to even attempt it. Its actually one of the hugely
drawing factors of UO.
So when you say, sort of condecendly, that UO is borrowing from
Shadowbane for special moves? I beg to differ on that, if anything they are
coming from UO or AO, but they are common in all other games besides UO. EQ
has Kick, Bash, Taunt, and tons of other combat abilites, AO has all the
martial artist attacks, along with a number of other abilites, its not a
new concept, and we shouldn't give glory to any one game for inventing
it.
I agree that Shadowbane will never be more then a niche game unless there
is something really mindboggling about it that they havn't even hinted at.
I don't plan on buying it even though I was all excited for it three years
ago. If they have a free download & week of playing I'll try it out,
otherwise forget it, there are better games coming out soon enough that I
can live without that one. AoS will be new enough and stir UO enough that
things will stay new for awhile.
-Bokonon
"All persons, living or dead, are purely coincidental and should not be
construed."
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JBStrider
Not a Nuub
Registered: 28/6/2002 Location: GL, NV, Siege Member Is Offline Mood: Zzzzzzzz
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| posted on 24/1/2003 at 00:50 |
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I do think AoS will be a shot in the arm for UO. I hope it helps get "new"
players (not second accounts).
But... and its a big but...
Remember when Tram came out and a month later all the PK's were tired of
killing each other? The only prey was other PK's. Everyone in Fel was
pissed because they had no one to prey on. Get ready cause thats the way
Fel is going to be again. Trammel players are starting to see that they do
not even need scrolls to play in Tram. The only reason they get them now is
because its no risk/high reward. When the risk becomes high with AoS many
Trammel scroll hunters will stop hunting scrolls. Now I know you are going
to say "Yea we don't want them here anyway" but remember how bored you were
and ready to quit a few months after Trammel?
I think I have said this before in another post but it also seemed to fit
here. Felucca's traffic has really grown with the addition of the no risk
areas. I can see in another six months OSI trying to figure new ways again
to get people in to Fel.
Flame on bitches!
[Edited on 24/1/2003 by JBStrider]
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Adam Warlock
Semi-Nuub
Registered: 11/12/2002 Member Is Offline
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| posted on 24/1/2003 at 04:20 |
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Reply
AoS will expend the No risk zone of Pub 16 to all of the game, basically
thats whats OSI is doing now.
With item insurance ppl will be able to insure their items, and let me tell
you, dying sucks, loosing ur armour sucks, ur regs ur bandies or ur clothes
sucks too, but that is nothing compared too the loss of ur kickass weapon
when ur a relatively new player who spent everything u had on that
weapon.
THATS the only thing thats keeping players from participating in PvP. Mages
need more regs and high skill, which is hard to train, with warriors its
all about that weapon.
THATS why the new item system has come, not for the warriors but for the
mages, sure warriros get neat weapons too, but nothing that gives any MORE
advantage in combat then they already have.
So Item insurance is a feature to the warriors, and new special items is a
feature to the mages. U will have to PvM to get them right? And who does
that best, warrior or mage? And the biggest changes arent the new magicall
weapons but new magicall armour with special abilities, with a mages
repartoir of spells he can best take advantage of this.
So Warriors get special moves, thats another big change, and mages get
weapons they can use even when casting.
Both get a new skill, Necro for mages and Chivalry for warriors, and u
throw in another skill for both of them. (Battle focus)
And with Item insurance that WILL bring lots of more people into Fellucca,
with insured weapons and armour pvp will flourish again, and who the hell
will want to live in trammel? 
-Adam Warlock
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FrozenFire
UOPG Moderator
Registered: 20/6/2002 Location: ClownTown, Europa Member Is Offline Mood: Bitter? Who, me
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| posted on 24/1/2003 at 14:44 |
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quote:
Originally posted by dissonant
Hey we already know the care bear servers suck ass. Why doesn't everyone
head over to Siege? No trammel ruleset AT ALL. Care bearers are excited
about no statloss? We've had it on Siege forever. No recall either. Reds
can go in town and access banks, etc etc.
To quote you, we already know. . . But somehow it doesnt seem to be such a
good idea to move to an all out pvp server when your ping jumps from 45 to
230. . . Now, if OSI would give European players a server with the Siege
ruleset, Id be there in a flash.
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Social Enemy
Semi-Nuub
Registered: 23/11/2002 Member Is Offline Mood: Werd.
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| posted on 24/1/2003 at 16:13 |
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in the past couple of months i have come to the conclusion that uo will
never be the same thing i started playing in 98.
lets face it, pvp is the same as it was before, and i tire of it. you can
duel, for bragging rights but at some point that gets boring. you can do
virtue wars but we all know thats made up of townies with 50 bandys and a
gold runic. factions were fun for awhile but after awhile it seems to be
just people that want mass orange to kill for loot. and guild wars (at
least on chessy) are all full of lies, insults, uneven fights and lies
about the numbers at the fights, and messageboard/irc spamming.
UO has lost its touch for me, but thats just me. I'm looking forward to Aos
so i can add a few things to my account before i sell it. I'm an avid Quake
3 Arena player and I find that there is always people wanting to fight, 9x
out of 10 after every game people say things like Good Game out of good
sportsmanship. also the competition is great, and people don't hide from
you on other servers such as trammel or malas. Quake 3 is for me.
It's sad how OSI has had to adept to stay in the Online rpg race and they
get bashed for it. I heard from somewhere a Uo dev memeber said that they
wouldn't want anything cut from the original UO, they put it there for a
reason. but they have to listen to their customer base. I say don't blame
osi, i say blame the people who paged after you pk'd them, or cryed when
you were at the lich spawn and wouldn't let them jump in and steal your
kills, or the people who got stolen from, attacked the thief and then had
the thief kill them while stealing from them the entire fight. or the
whiners who said no casting time between spells was unfair.
those people can blow me.
"And all shall fall by the grace of the people."
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FD_Pilot
Not a Nuub
Registered: 20/6/2002 Location: Virginia International Raceway Member Is Offline Mood: Boyakasha!
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| posted on 24/1/2003 at 18:57 |
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I'm quickly starting to think that the infinite number of blessed (err...
insured) magic items are going to spawn some items that OSI hasn't though
of...or developed a cap for.
I sort of think of it like this... magic gear ~ pack instinct.
Get one ozzie. It's not worth much. Almost usless.
Get one artifact... +7% magic damage... so what? You loose it...no big
loss.
Now... get 5 ozzies... and you are a terror.
Get 5 artifacts with +7% magic damage (or whatever..pick any ability...or
MULTIPLE ABILITIES)... and you are going to be uber.
I'm thinking there is going to be gear spawning with damn good
modifiers...that once stacked with other gear....are going to make the word
"balance" meaningless. It's just a question of how fast you can
upgrade....like a bicycle...once you stop...there goes your balance.
Everybody's got a tamer or a bard. We aren't talking about opening 3
accounts full of GM Smith's so we can pull 45 BOD's per day *hoping* after
5 months I can get that Vally runic. Powerful gear is going to be hitting
from day one, as every spot that spawns dragons/bloods/demons/lich
lords/balrons/ AW's get's farmed like never before.
Oh...and then Smiths and Tailors can then MODIFY that gear even more.
It was just 5 simple items that disrupted PvP... Bronze, Gold, Aggie,
Verite, and Valorite weapons. Now we got basically infinite weapons &
more importantly infinite gear coming soon. And it's gonna hit like a
tidal wave.
[Edited on 1/24/2003 by FD_Pilot]
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Rockie
Semi-Nuub 
Registered: 27/6/2002 Member Is Offline Mood: Wootification.
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| posted on 24/1/2003 at 19:02 |
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SB PvP
I've heard that power leveling in SB is pretty easy, you can pop out
a lvl 40 char (if you have the right friends) in under a week. The PvP is
pretty good, but the class system is pretty interesting. You can PvP with
everyone on the mainland (as I understand it they have a "haven" like area
for newbies. PvP is supposively much better than UO's, and its 99%
impossible to run from someone who has attacked you. Sorry, no dexed out
horses for joo!
[Edited on 24/1/2003 by Rockie]
Finding Emo Band
Kul Tiras Marines
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Nieves
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| posted on 24/1/2003 at 19:03 |
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Hey wait!
I don't have a tamer!!!
Seriousely...
You know Pilot, why is it that people in Austin can't see these things?
Item Based PvP.
Got to love it.
Hasta.
Most people aren't stupid. They are just uninformed idiots.
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FD_Pilot
Not a Nuub
Registered: 20/6/2002 Location: Virginia International Raceway Member Is Offline Mood: Boyakasha!
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| posted on 24/1/2003 at 19:32 |
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There's that piece in the new items section that goes over weapons that
mages can use....ones that will convert your Mage ability to Weapon Skill
Ability while you have it equipped.
I've read it a dozen times.
If I understand it correctly... in about 2 months... everyone will have a
tank mage. Just a question of if you have Med or Battle Focus.
*edit*
I might as well cut and paste what I'm talking about
One bonus will even allow the caster to wield a weapon while casting,
although spell casting time may increase. Another bonus will allow the
caster's Magery skill as a combat skill for the weapon (i.e.: Magery used
in lieu of Swordsmanship for a sword). However, the wielder's Magery skill
is lowered while wielding such a weapon. (Note that using Special Moves
associated with the weapon will still require the wielder to have the
required amount of skill points in the actual weapon skill.)
I might be a little off on what a "tank mage" is... that's not the point..
the point is I found/buy a weapon... then I change my template around that
item.
[Edited on 1/24/2003 by FD_Pilot]
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CH
Not a Nuub 
Registered: 21/6/2002 Location: Charleston, SC Member Is Offline Mood: BLING BLING!!
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| posted on 28/1/2003 at 16:51 |
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Hello, it's 4:50 in the AM, and that means its time for Perspectives! I'm
your host Lionel Osbourne, and with me today is baseball rookie sensation
Jermaine Allensworth!
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
/end SNL humor
We may live without poetry, music, and art;
We may live without conscience, and live without heart;
We may live without friends.; we may live without books;
But the civilized man cannot live without cooks.
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